Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Today on the Inchtones podcast, I have Jam and Jen. She is really known by that moniker to anyone. And I. I truly. I truly mean anyone who has children with autism, and specifically children with non speaking autism. Jen is a music therapist. She is the creme de la creme of this therapy business, because what she provides in a therapeutic sense to non speaking children is what I believe bringing out their brilliance. Millie has been with Jen for, gosh, years now. And Jen was a part of the day that elicited Millie's first spoken word. So needless to say, Jen's a big deal in our house.
Jen, welcome to Inchtones.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Thanks so much for having me. I'm so thrilled we could do this.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: Tell us how you became Jam and Jen.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: Okay.
My first career, I was a aspiring Broadway actress and had some really great success.
And then the rejection of auditioning and not getting the role, I had to find something else. And I'm such a believer in things happen for a reason. I was called to this incredible career that I've been able to create.
I heard about an Intro to Music Therapy class at the New School in New York City. I sat in the classroom. I had no psychology background, nothing. I never picked guitar. I just was, you know, I was a singer, a dancer.
And as soon as I sat there and listened to the meaning of how music can connect us with people who are either nonverbal or have emotional dysregulation, all sorts of populations, I realized that I can use my gift of music and find a way to help. And combining those two was the greatest gift for me. Because the truth is, my whole life, I was really struggling with learning disabilities. And, you know, the whole Broadway acting thing was, like, my outlet. I thought that that's where I was gonna really land. And now every day when I wake up, I really know why I was put on this earth. And I mean, it's something that. Who doesn't have that kind of love for the work they do?
For someone who doesn't really feel that, I guess it's hard for them to really grasp and understand it. And the truth is, I feel that people who do find their passion and follow it and then really make it something enormous, which is what we did with Jam and Jen. It's now like an enterprise. It's a little bit. It's really, really an incredible music therapy practice where we're servicing adults, children, schools. But I feel so lucky for people like that who are able to find their niche and, you know, really go for it and go for it big, which we did.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: You know, so many of us found you. You know, we're in Central Jersey. Right. When you have a child that gets a diagnosis of, you know, level two or three non speaking autism, the timeline of acceptance and grief kind of like ebbs and flows. Right. And when grasping for answers to understand your child. A lot of moms that I buzz around that are in the similar situations really didn't know why, but they knew it was powerful about the engagement of music therapy, you know, particularly for non speaking children and you know, the, the ability for it to bring out and support children that have motor planning issues.
Do you feel like that rhythm and the melody, they act like, you know, scaffolding almost. To these children who are caught inside brains and bodies that want to show that and want to speak and want to break out, music does something.
Music is firing some neurological way. Absolutely. That out. And I don't think it's almost. You can't even speak to. There's not even words for it.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean first of all, the right side of the brain and how our brain retrieves physical notes, dynamics, soft, loud, loud, soft. The cadence of the way someone speaks, all of that plays a huge role in how we work with children. And I think so many of our children who are non speaking but love music.
The way that we are singing the melody and the flow is a really good example. The way that a melody flows and a song flows allows I believe a child to, to want to engage more. It's not as sitting in a, in any sort of therapy session. And I think all therapy for children with special needs. Terrific. I really am a believer in every single one said that some children learn through movement and melody and rhythm and so we use all of that. Another thing that I just wanted to add besides just you know, the right side of the brain and how music is received and how it is retrieved and how it is stored in a child's brain. We use so much repetition which you as a mom with a child with autism know repetition is such a great tool for children to learn neurotypical and children neurodiverse diagnosis. So I find that, that you know, the melody, the music, the rhythm, all of that plays a big role. But there's something else that I don't see a lot of therapists doing. And you know, it's funny, most of the people who see my work receive it incredibly.
They're overwhelmed, they're moved, they love it.
I know that as a mother myself, that I truly, and I mean this, I truly love every single client and the. I work with know this, and they know it because I tell them things. I acknowledge that I know them. I acknowledge when they're down, I see it's hard. That's one part of it, acknowledging that the, the humanness of who they are.
But the other part of it is touch. And a lot of therapists are scared to physically engage with touch.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:07:25] Speaker B: And I'm not. You know, I. I believe that children need to feel that love and that being and even just a. A touch on the child's back as they're trying to get. And, you know, it's so well received by my clients that there's no other way for me to do it.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: It's as simple as being seen and heard. And when you have children that are pushed to the fringe of being seen and heard, not figuratively, like, literally, they aren't heard. Right. Like, they are not heard and their voice and their. Is not out. And, you know, I am so thankful and full of deep, deep gratitude for companies in tech who have created, you know, AAC devices and programs that can elicit what's inside. And that is still pushed so far to the edges of what the echo chamber of voices is. So I believe that what you do and how you're doing it is that you have this. This very, very specific, very crevice of a way to engage that is through touch, that is through going, you did it. I see you trying so hard. I see it in the home front, you know, with my kids, but they're different. And they're like you said, you can love, I think, in your practice and how you and your brand does this is by letting every child know that they. What they have in them, you're going to find a way to get out.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: That's so, I mean, that's a great way to say, you know, we're dad and I won't give up.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: And I don't know if it's just my, my strong personality, but I do also feel that I owe that to them. I owe that to that child and to those families, to give that family and that child 150% of what I know works.
[00:09:22] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that's. So there's a lot of buzz around science right now and having data. Talk about someone who's collected data. You. You've collected data on this. Whether you're officially doing so or not, you have data in spades around this connection. And I do believe that your ability to find the music, to find the song, to find the genre, that all these different Kids and even just with the, the teeny tiny ones up until the teenagers, you know, that takes a lot of energy and I know that that's very intuitive for you. Like you said, you're, you know, being bold. Those are just. That makes Jen. Jen.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: And that's also why you have this data set of hundreds of students that can, you can share about this and prove.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, because I video so much, you can really see progress and that. And I know it takes a village. Believe me, I know. Speech and OT and PT and aba, we're all, and we're all a big team. I think in my music therapy sessions when I have a child who's primarily non speaking and you know, month six, they're starting to trust me enough to open their mouth and then the sounds come out and then the words come out.
I believe so much that if a child just even that little bit amount that there's so much more in them. And I always say that to you about Millie, you know, when she first started talking and labeling things and was able to express her feelings, I would say to you, if she can do that, if she can do any of that, even if it's one or two things, she can do all of it. It's just a matter.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: It's like someone recently said an analogy. It's like Michelangelo saw the marble and went, yep. Like, I feel like Millie is chiseling and refining and then is going to start. It's like it does, you know, and there's no, there's no straight and narrow. But once you get that expressive language out, it does start to become something that they as a human, I always think as a primal, primal human, they desire to do. And I think that's where your gift lies in not only just like straddling both worlds, but you know, you in so many ways have acted deeply part of the families of all of your students that you and your clients, because you are so intimately involved in their growth.
Just like the whole, you know, like you said aba, speech, ot, but like you are a very, very specific part of it. And I do hope that parents that might not have a jam and gen in their area, like find you online and take your courses on YouTube and take your classes and watch that because as someone who's experienced it as having a child, as a client of yours, you have an ability to jump off the screen and create that parents if they're sitting and watching. So that's an. I can't like shout enough.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: Thank you. That's so Sweet. You know, honestly, it's you, though, Ben.
[00:12:40] Speaker A: It's you.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Well, you know, I don't know how to do it any other way. That's the truth. And you know, we're interviewing right now for the therapist, and one of the, one of the stamps of Jam and Jen that you have to have is music therapists have to have energy. And I. Oh, at the strum of their hello song, right when they send me an audition video, whether or not they're hiring, because that engagement has to, has to come across. Whether you're doing virtual sessions with an adult or you're in person with a child, you've got to have that energy.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: And I guess I could send you. I probably did. But if it would help at all to, to, to validate this. During COVID you were doing virtual sessions with Millie. And I remember I have video of like taping her in the session with you, and she was on an ottoman with the laptop propped up and like this, I know she was like, thank you, God, like, my people are back in my world, you know, and that was via video. And, you know, she was not used to me even being around during these because, you know, normally I'm waiting in your waiting room. I remember her thinking, like, go ahead, you can get out. Like, this is my time with Jen, you know?
[00:13:56] Speaker B: Yeah. You said that I have to prove.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: How wonderful this is, that it works.
This is kind of a broader conversation. But if you're good at something, and if you're good at something in this category of education, and if the educational system is for severely profound autistic children, you have it, you have it locked and loaded because it doesn't matter if you're in person or virtual, that connection is felt.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: So thank you. You know why, but you know why, Sarah? It's really, I, I just feel like I have to, you know, I just feel like it is my job to give every child a chance and everything.
You know, it's gotten to a point obviously now where we have a staff of 13 board certified music therapists. We're in 33 schools, we have over 140 adults. You know, it got, it got really big. And one of the things that I always said was I don't want it to be too big where I don't know every child. That's what I always said. And it. And you know, when you, when you run a flourishing practice, you have to accept as the face of that practice that if it's going to blow up in a good way and be highly successful, you've got to let that go. But you know what, Sarah? You want to know something? I still get on the phone with every single parent after the first session, make sure that my therapist tells me when they're doing great, when they're struggling. I mean, I'm trying my best to keep my foot in every little door, but it gets to be very difficult to manage all of that. And I. And I. And it. It bothers me, like I want to clone myself.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: But that's. I mention this on almost every episode, so I apologize to anyone listening. They're like, yes, Sarah, we get it. This is what you do and say.
Women are primally wired to tend and befriend. Right. We are primal women that desire to help others. Right. I mean, we all hope we find a purpose in life, but women, like human women and females, we are, like, coded for it. And I think that finding your purpose and like you saying that you wish you could clone yourself means you have found it.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: I sure you are on fire for that.
That's why the world changes. That's why each client of yours changes, because you are living your life's purpose and your life's work. And I've said this again on old episodes, Glennon Doyle said, women should find out what breaks their heart the most and look to change that.
[00:16:50] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:16:51] Speaker A: And that's what you're doing. Because every child that you get to serve is looking for aid, support to have be shouted from the rooftops. And that's what you're doing.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And the parents as well. You know, you said it a little earlier, like, I'm not just a music therapist. I really. The entire family, from grandparents to siblings, you know, mom, that they all become a part of my world. And I make sure that I make them feel really included, especially the siblings who sit in the waiting room, because them. And I say, hey, you want.
Okay. For the goodbye song, you have to be a certain person. You have to read the temperature of a room. You have to know and care about how people feel.
[00:17:50] Speaker A: Yes. Energy. You are. You are a mad. You are a master energy meter upper. Like you. You read that. You know what I mean? Like, you read that energy very quickly. And that's why non.
Doesn't really even matter to you because you're like, okay, you don't speak. I'm gonna. I'm gonna read what you're like and what you're vibing and how we're doing this.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:10] Speaker A: And that. That includes the family system. Right. And that's why you. I think do do that so beautifully at the end of sessions and bringing siblings in. Gosh, I wish we had video of when Millie was two and a half and Mac was a newborn and Morgan was like. I mean, I really. I mean, that. That tape's gotta be old, man. The cloud probably purged it a while ago.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: But I remember when I first met you, you were preggo with.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, that's really a wild, you know, reminder of not only just how far we obviously women when we age. I think it's a beautiful thing to be able to. But the platform at which you have been elevated to change, not only just, you know, private clients, but through the schools and your online programs and classes and courses and offering this as a. This is a movement. I really, really believe it. And I think it stems just from you being who you are meant to be. I really do.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: Thank you so much. And, you know, I want to. I want to add one thing. You know, every friend, like, we haven't seen for a while, or, you know, a random person, when we tell them what we do, they say, you should franchise. You'd be all over the world. And do you know what I say?
I say, here's why I. This is my brand. This is my name. And I want to make sure that the people that are under my umbrella in New Jersey are carrying the reputation that matters so much to me that I created the program that I created. And yes, in every single state we could. The name, it's something I'm interested in. I'm really not interested in it. I'm interested in the now and each child now. I don't want to think about not being able to help a therapist in Chicago who's under my name. I want to be able to, you know, get on a phone with a therapist or get on a Zoom call or go. Go to the house if I have to and see what's going on so I could fix it.
[00:20:29] Speaker A: Think what you're tapping into is probably the butterfly effect of you're able. Your talent, your mission, your heart, your soul is to build connection and communication with children on the spectrum. And because of you being so passionate about that, what those kids, how they grow, that's your legacy. Your legacy is not creating Jim and Jen in every state. Your legacy is that you are changing children who, had they not met you or their parents, had not been in your orbit. That's who you're. That's your legacy. Right? The children that are gonna go on to say, and I will get choked up like that. Like, yeah, Jen had me say apple. That was the first, you know, and having a child that you brought that out of, that's what this is for.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: That's why I wake up. Yeah, that's why.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: Private equity firm to buy Jam and Jen and to like create Jam and Jen all over. That's not what you're doing.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: No. And that's really not. They wouldn't get it.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: You know exactly what are, as I ask every guest, what is an inch stone of yours recently personally, and what is an inch stone of Jam and Jen as a whole that you've experienced recently?
[00:21:50] Speaker B: When you say inch stone, do you mean something positive, A small marker of.
[00:21:55] Speaker A: Forward motion that you can celebrate for yourself and for your company?
[00:22:00] Speaker B: Oh, boy.
So for myself, I would say that personally I've been able to really look at who I am as a mom, as a wife, as a woman and make some changes in my life where I wanted to become much more physically healthy and much more present every day. And I eat better, I sleep better, I don't drink alcohol, I exercise, I eat lots of fruits and vegetables. That's a commitment I've made for myself and it really has trickled into so many of my relationships. It allows me to be so much better. And I think it's important for everyone to be able to find that because self care is huge, especially when you're a therapist and you're giving so much. And I think for so many years I didn't stop. I just kept going and going and then finally, you know, I hit a wall and I said, whoa, what about me?
When I stepped back and started to look at myself and my self care, I think I became even better. So that, I would say, is a little inch stone for me personally. And then I think for the company, it's just that we just keep growing.
We just keep growing.
[00:23:33] Speaker A: It's authentic and organic growth that aligns with you.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a high class problem is what my husband and I say.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a high class New Jersey problem.
[00:23:42] Speaker B: It's a high class New Jersey problem. And we'd rather have a waiting list and make sure that the child the right therapist than just take on any client. So we're really, really out there wanting to help so many and I so appreciate your advocacy and what you're doing.
I just do want to say this. It does take a village, but it also takes an incredible mother. And I have known hundreds and you are one of the top mom warriors that I've ever been lucky enough to call A friend. And so to you, your children wouldn't be where they're at. They just wouldn't. There's no way.
So it takes a village, but it takes a kick ass mom. And that's you. I love you.
[00:24:36] Speaker A: Thank you. I think in leaning into being this unchosen, right, no one wakes up in their 20s and says, I want two children with non speaking autism thrown into a role as their CEO and mother.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: Right.
[00:24:50] Speaker A: Is the gift of my life. And it's also the biggest pain point source of pain. Right. And I do believe that you do not see the beauty in life if you do not understand deep pain. And that dichotomy is where I lead from. Because it's always yes and it's always yes and always. And listen, to end on a really, really sweet note. I had to tell you this before we said goodbye. We were somewhere like traveling with Morgan's basketball team and we were walking down a hallway of a hotel and I don't know, your hello song came in my mind and I just went, see, saying hello to Millie and she like looked like, what the. She turned so fast. And I was like, oh, I'm sorry, am I not? Because I'm not Jen. I can't sing that.
She was like, she was like, more please. More please. Otter talker.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: Aw.
[00:25:42] Speaker A: Anyways, that it'll. It'll be forever in the family repertoire this hello. Anyway, well, Jen, we're going to make sure to link all of your, your, your business and your socials and everything on a way for people to follow you and even if they're not nearby, that they can be an active part as parents using music and music therapy to elicit the best versions of their children.
[00:26:04] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: Of course. And until next time, on the insurance podcast.
