Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Inch Zones podcast. Today I have a new acquaintance of mine who, through the beauty of substack, actually brought our world and writings to find each other. And today I have Jenna Gennaitis, who is a writer, mother herself, and specifically the author of mamawell on Substack. Jenna, thank you so much for being here today in a world of writing and social media that is inundated and flooded with advice for moms. Your substack piece on realistic self care is why we're having this conversation today. Because I was like, thank you. This is what. This resonates with the population of mothers that I choose to serve.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Thank you, Sarah. It's a real honor. Your work is really inspiring, and I know it impacts mothers everywhere, so I'm really happy to be here. And I think along the lines of what you were talking about, with the self care being realistic in my work, I don't want it to feel like more to do, you know, what more do I have to add to my list? And it's trying to alleviate some of that list and embed beautiful things that fill our souls during the day that are actually possible when we're being a parent. So happy to dive into that with you.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: Yeah. One of the things I believe that was on that list was. Or one of your phrases was like, okay, you could doom scroll for 20 minutes, or you could just scroll and just take the day off and shed the day, or you could watercolor for 10 minutes, or you could lean into these things that we've created this, like, hierarchy of, like, well, that's gonna be too much to do. Or that's gonna be this. The irony of that one line and suggestion is that my. My Millie, on her device that she uses to talk has recently been saying, get the paint, get the markers, get the scissors, get the water. Watercolor, actually. And I thought, great. Well, we might not do it each other every day, but it was nice to really get my little set out again. And it wasn't even 10 minutes, Jenna. It was like five. And I thought this was a great way to end my day.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: Right.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: You know, like, we forget that it doesn't have to be, like, two hours of our time.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: Right. It doesn't have to be a big production or. Yeah, we have to. To do it for extensive periods of time. And. And what are those things that really fill us up? So it could be the watercolor painting where I'm drawing a little birthday cake and filling it with some color, or maybe it's just taking my coffee outside Looking at the flowers in my garden for five minutes and it's like, this feels like luxury. Totally. This is the dream.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: Like, am I in Bali right now? Like, this is the one.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: The sun is shining.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: Flowers are blooming. You know, it's the. Those simple things. But going into that world ourselves and giving that gift to ourselves, I think as a mother fuels everybody. It doesn't me up in the kids and what we're able to do with them and our presence with them. And I think the kids are important, obviously, but so are we. And so I think giving that to ourselves helps us enjoy our days.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: It does, you know, and I, I believe whether you have neurotypical or neurodivergent children, any neurotype, we as mothers get to model what those choices are. And so in giving ourselves that, we are modeling that self care, even if it is 3 minutes, 4 minutes, 20 minutes.
I have an outdoor screened in porch that I obviously can only use about what, maybe four months, five months out of the year, realistically, without the heater on. And the joy that it brings me to that cup of coffee now that it's warmer outside, is now becoming a thing that my typical, I have a typical 12 and a half year old daughter. And she's like, I know where to find you in the mornings, you know, And I think that that's what we're modeling too, that these children, they're watching even the slightest of smallest things that we do for our motherhood journey.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: I think, yeah, I have a similar experience. Cause we have a front porch and it overlooks this beautiful neighborhood with all this landscaping and people walking by. You know, I try to go out there when I wake up before my kids. I go out there for stretching and coffee and things like that. And then my kids join me. They see me out, you know, they look out the window, oh, there's mom, you know, and they, they cuddle up. And we start our day with just that slow, slowness together. And I do think it sets the tone. And it totally. It kind of makes me feel a little bit proud, like, oh yeah, I am being that kind of mom who's a little bit at ease, who's enjoying the things of life. I'm not just rushing around. Get your shoes on.
You know, for me as a kid, you know, that those were some challenges. And I think sometimes it has to be done right. We have to get places. We have.
Just taking those times when we don't have to be rushing around can really make a difference for everybody.
[00:04:38] Speaker A: How did Mamawell Rise up in you. And how did you know that you felt I have to share this? I have to. This is part of my mission, my calling, my soul, you know. When did that all begin for you?
[00:04:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been a long journey to get here. I've been a writer for almost 10 years, writing for different publications, and I write on parenthood and wellness and a range of other topics. So I do what's called the morning pages. You may have heard of them.
They're from Julia Cameron's book, the Artist's Way. Yes. So I've been doing that for close to two years. And, you know, I thought for a while my work was meant to be healing things within myself, my inner child. I worked with internal family systems and Dr. And some other therapies, which was definitely a breakthrough in my life because they say, like, as you become a parent and you see you're experiencing your children at the age as things happen to you, it brings up all these triggers and things. And so that was really healing. And I wrote about a lot of that.
I think that has its place. But I'm not a psychologist. I'm not an expert in all of those things. And I realized that a lot of women are already doing that type of work. They're aware of that. They're trying to be a very present parent, mindful parent. They're all into their kids. They're showing empathy. They're. You know, a lot of the women that I'm parenting with are doing a lot of that stuff, which is so great. And so I started to journal more and realized that moms don't need more of that more direction of how to be a good mom and how to.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: It's just like we get whiplash from it a little bit. And even the process of. In taking advice becomes an energy sucker. And that's not what that's meant to do, right?
[00:06:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And then I'm just seeing these Instagram reels about how to be more present with my kid, and then I'm so worried I'm not being a present mom. And then I'm.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: It's like, so true.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: It's just.
[00:06:31] Speaker A: I don't mean to laugh, but it. Crowds of people behind me that will listen are going, yeah.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: And it just got to be where it's, like, too much for even me to manage all of those pressures and different messages. And so, you know, I kind of made a list of, like, what's important to me, what can I bring to the table? And then what do moms really actually need? And so when I, when I looked at all that, it's like moms need something for them. They need lightness and joy and care less to do.
[00:06:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:59] Speaker B: And so I started to play with that theme, and just right off the bat, 50 ideas came to my head. Oh, I want to write about this. I want to write about this. I want to share this little joy or this little thing I've tried, or this from another mom that really feel, you know, fueled her. And so it was born out of that a lot of intention, a lot of time. Like all good things, they don't happen overnight.
And then the response, you know, while it's still new, has been pretty, pretty powerful. I've learned a lot along the way as well in terms of, yeah, I want to try that out. Oh, I want to, you know, do a morning walk without music and, you know, different things that moms have shared with me through my articles that you've read.
[00:07:38] Speaker A: So much of that hits home, you know, with being a mom to a typical child, but also Millie and Mac with profound autism and the mothers and the caregivers that I, that I write for and for my own journey. That's why I try to keep these episodes under 30 minutes. Is that the ability to press pause from a motherhood place where extracurriculars at night or my, my activities for my children are so based in therapy and at the same time getting what's necessary for them to grow, any sort of language, whether that's on their devices or through spell to communicate. The easiest analogy for me is that we, in some ways the, the weight of profound autism is like the weight of a newborn. It's not that they're newborns, but the weight of what it takes to keep them growing is like the intensity of having them in the newborn phase. And it's not bad. But sometimes the ability to press pause when you're nursing and up all middle of the night is reflective in that same journey that I'm on with a 10 and a seven year old now. Still, that pressing pause, even for eight minutes, is a lot, especially in the evening hours or in the early, in getting up early and doing that. And so having shorter episodes was always an acknowledgment to my audience of, I understand 30 minutes is ridiculous, and if on 1.5 speed, it might still be ridiculous. Right, right. And that's not unique or that's, that's, that's not unique to me. That's, that's part of the, the profound autism world that is, I believe, is happening for me. And yet still being able to find those minutes is so precious. It's so absolutely precious. Speak to me about the article that you wrote recently that I was mentioning before we pressed record about sensory activation and how to take in our own, as a mom, what maybe is triggering or what, what is very peaceful to our sensory experiences, because that really plays a role in the autism mom world as well.
[00:09:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So in terms of what I wrote about, I wrote a lot about overstimulation and I interviewed some experts about that and what they recommended. I think overstimulation happens for many, many parents. Totally. Studies show that 75% of people experience that as a parent. So, so finding.
What are those main triggers for you? Is it, is it noise, music going, TV in the background, you know, kitchens busy with different machines and sounds and. Or is it touch? Is it, you know, all those things at one time? And so the experts really recommended starting to scan your body. What's happening in my body? Okay. My. Is my heart racing, is my jaw clenching?
And. And then naming that I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm feeling overstimulated. And then putting into place mechanisms to try to reduce that, which could mean turning off some of those sounds, lowering them, turning down the lights, but then also grounding yourself in the moment.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: Grounding again, parents with autistic children.
It's, it's some, it's a, it's a word in the whole, I guess, spectrum of stimulation. Right. Like overstimulation. Not enough, you know, understim, under stimulation and the grounding nature. Our feet firmly planted, the, the ground is helping us quite literally like stay at a homeostatic, peaceful place. Right. I oftentimes will literally send my son, I always say, autism or not. He's a little seven year old boy. Right. He, he's a healthy seven year old boy who has a different neurotype, but he needs more. So sometimes I just send him out, you know, barefoot. Like, I know that the typical little boy would do that, but I have to consciously do that. He's not gonna do it, but I can know that the grounding of that helps his overstimulation a ton. And so then you think maybe that helps me too. I believe it is so, so powerful.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so too.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: My therapist recommends literally pressing your feet on the ground and from your toes to your heels and back and, you know, looking around the room and there's the black curtain rod and the round mirror and getting into that space can help when there's so much going on and we're feeling that over.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: And those are the things, Jenna, that, you know, again, going back to that original article that I love so much, those are the things that autism, moms area that they can do that. They can. They can do that for a few moments. And I think that as we talk more about that from a universal motherhood standpoint, you can still do those small little things that are so luxurious and you don't. You won't even realize it until you try it. Right?
[00:12:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And it. And it's taking that time to be intentional about it in a way that feels life giving. That doesn't feel like one more thing I need to focus on and do right and follow the steps. That's not what it's about.
It's about dropping in, slowing it down, and really doing those little small things that. That change the whole day. Change the. How is this moment gonna go? It can go two ways. And it's so easy for me to just go the one way. Right. Just get upset. Y' all just kind of rush around.
[00:12:37] Speaker A: Come on, let's go, like, grab. I'm like, let's gotta get in the car.
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Versus, like, okay, let me image myself as my child.
And what would I want?
And I can do this. And sometimes it's a time saver. It's an energy saver because I'm not just expending so much energy just forcing people to do what I want them to do.
It's like, okay, I'm going to take two minutes now, and that's going to save me 10 minutes. Because people don't feel rushed and they're not going to dig their heels in.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: Yeah. A few years ago, I got a sauna because I was like, you know what?
If it's good enough for the Finns to do every day in Finland, it's good enough for me. Okay. I got this one person sauna, and I can get really down very quickly. About like, crap, I'm not going to be able to get 11 minutes in. Like, I've got four. Like, I realistically have four. And I was saying, actually to my. My oldest, I said, I'm gonna go in the sauna for four minutes. And she started laughing. And I go, sweetie, think about how powerful four minutes is, right? And I go, I'm gonna go down. I'm gonna be a sweaty mess in four minutes. And whatever it gives me, it gives me. And it's always the right choice.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. And it's funny you say that because I've always thought I'm kind Of like a little bit wild. Like, you know, I'll cook dinner and then it's like, all right, I'm gonna drop down and do five pushups.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: You know, and here I got a little exercise in and I'm gonna do lunges while I put away laundry. And that's what I got today. And that's good.
[00:13:58] Speaker A: Yeah, like, I did it funny aside to that, exercising while cooking dinner. But my college roommates still remember my own mother doing sit ups in the corner while moving us into our apartment building for senior year in college. And it's still this running joke. They're like, we'll never forget. Like, we're moving cinder blocks to put these twin beds on to have storage underneath it. And your mom is in the corner doing 50 push, 50 sit ups. And I thought, yeah, she always, she made it work. That's like she always. It was not convenient or. And it didn't look like what a typical mom would do, but man, she got that in. As summer comes and I saw something that you had written like the slowing down nature of summer and what does it look like slowing down for? For you talk about what it might look like when the schedules do change and we are with our children more and slow down, you know, in those small ways.
[00:14:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question. And I. And I'm still working on that article, so I don't have all the answers yet. But yeah, for me, I think it's the way that I start the day that matters the most in the summer. Again, we talked about being on the porch or you know, just not expecting that I'm going to start the day getting things done or, you know, having it look a certain way because yeah, I read somewhere that it's like one of the most important moments of the day for a child. And it's like the first five minutes, the last five minutes.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: And I think that's also important for us of how we start our days without a phone, with a little movement, with journaling, whatever sets you up. And I think it's a balance though. And like I said, I haven't written it yet. So it's a mix of having some really fun things on the calendar that have nothing at all and balancing that. I don't know how you approach that.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: As a mom, I really benefit from emotion visuals to help with scheduling and being mindful about like the schedule and how it does shift in the summer. I've got that C Eisler, like big ass calendar. Right. You know, it's the intentionality again of it and it comes back to it doesn't mean that you're. You have to, like, become a travel agent or like a camp director to make conscious decisions about what works for you and your family. When I was only a mom of one, I have a mom friend who had four kids. And so her youngest was my oldest age. So she was, you know, about 10 years ahead and had four children. And one of the lines she would always use is, Sarah, what works best for your family? And right now your family is one little girl.
And, like, what works best for you? Because it's not gonna be what works best for me with a 10, 8, 6 and 1 or newborn, you know, being able to say that that's okay, it's not gonna look the same. I think that's what we were saying before we pressed record is having agency, peaceful agency, that, like, that's a really good idea that doesn't work for my family is okay to say, you know.
[00:16:35] Speaker B: I think so too.
Yeah. Just one other piece of the scheduling aspect for me. I find that when I don't feel so locked into a time, like, I gotta be here at 10 o'.
[00:16:46] Speaker A: Clock. Yeah.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: You know, it's gonna be 10, 15, 10 17. It doesn't really matter.
[00:16:53] Speaker A: Time is a social construct, Jenna.
That's right.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: Couldn't agree more.
[00:16:58] Speaker A: Have you ever read the book by Catherine May called Wintering?
[00:17:01] Speaker B: No. I've heard of it, though.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: Oh, add it to your list. As someone who deeply loves a good wintering phase, like, where you sort of cocoon. Like, we're not meant to be flowering and vibrant every. At every. You know, every month that summer reminds us that we can still have moments where we just sit in the breeze and just stand and take it in. And it's not still sunny and bright, but, like, the tree still stays rooted in the phase of the. When they're flowering too. And summer can be chaotic and it can be. It could lack the routine that it has during the year. I think I'm more of an outlier in the, like, profound autism mom community where, like, I don't isolate. Like, we go, we get out there. The world's reaction to me and my children is really none of my responsibility. And being able to contain that enough to say, like, we do integrate, we do get out there. We don't isolate. We engage, we interact. And those have parameters to it. And however that looks, especially during the summer, where we have the ability to travel more, be outside, we have to be able to say what works for us. And it doesn't mean that we're denying anyone else their truth about what works for their family, too, you know, And I think that that's. I see that resonate so much in your writing, and that's why I hope that my readers that obviously find a mirror in my work go to you, because I think that that is innate in part of what you do as a. As a writer. If they have not. I really have not found a writer who is able to write in a way that hits me as a mother who's very much not living my kind of reality, and yet it resonated so deeply. So I think that's a gift that you have, and you have a very great voice. You might need to start your own podcast, Jenna.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: Very soothing voice.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Thank you.
Well, thanks for the kind words. That really means a lot and helps me keep going with the work that I'm doing. And, you know, always love hearing from moms and talking with them because it's. It's a real gift to be able to do this. And it's also.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: I don't.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: I don't know, I want to use the word work, but I don't, because it is work, but it's. It's a life more than work.
[00:18:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And I. And I think that, you know, the systems of the present day time, we're always in great shifts, and we're, you know, cultures and communities and how we live are evolving. And, you know, how old you are. I'm at 42. I'm solidly in middle life. And you realize so deeply that culture and society is just always moving. We're always reorienting to the realities of the day. And we can also retain and slow that all down for what our little micro world of our home and our children are. And, you know, we'll never know what these choices we make now for our kids. How old are your kids, by the way?
[00:19:30] Speaker B: They're all six and under.
[00:19:32] Speaker A: Okay. Year four.
So, like, we'll never know what my three and your four in 40 years are going to say, right? Like, we don't. We can guess.
Had my parents share with me that one thing that I said as a young kid, and I'm the oldest of my children, of my siblings was, I'm going for a run for 20 minutes. But I'd said it twena. I didn't say 20, I said twena. Because my parents were very conscious of their lifestyle and exercising. Like, at 42, I laugh about my little, like, pigtailed self being, like, 20 minutes gonna go for a run for 20 minutes. And you know what your children are gonna pick up from you and say in 40 years? We don't really know, but we hope that it's the things that we're really present to and conscious of, you know, deciding to do.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I really hope so. And we. We can't control those outcomes as much as I'd love to.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: But I think just doing the work every day and just kind of the realization that this is. This is my. Our family, how we want to do it, and we get to make these choices and live this life, and it can look different than anybody else. And that's really beautiful. It's like our own art form. Right. Our own creation, our own world that we can have with our children. And it's something that only, you know, each one of us can do our own way.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: Do you see it with your 6 year old is your oldest? Do you see that near oldest?
[00:20:54] Speaker B: I do. I mean, every mom probably raves about their kids, but my kids are just incredible.
Yeah. I see a lot of the good and I'm like, was that me or is that just them?
[00:21:06] Speaker A: Well, maybe a little bit of both. It's a both. And I think that, you know, our ability to get really quiet and make these choices, as we've discussed over the last, you know, half an hour, are really, really important. And we do. We have as, you know, as mothers with a number of children, we don't really know what those are going to do and create in their own psyche and minds and their choices. But I think when you make choices that come from a sense of health and deep peace and deep, like, acknowledgement of the present moment and being mindful to that, however that lands on our children as they grow, I can't imagine it being a severe negative. Right. I think that there only really lands in the healthy positive.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I mean, I think this is the most important thing we can do, is do that for ourselves, that for our kids, and help our kids learn those things too.
Yeah. Based on everything that I know, that I've read, that I've researched, I think this is some of the most important work we can do because it lays the foundation for how the family operates, how they feel, they connect with each other. And if I'm well, as much as I can be, I think that just permeates through everybody.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: Totally. Well, that's a wonderful place to end because I do believe that it does permeate through our homes and our children. And Jenna, thank you so much for the work that you do for hitting a community. You might not have thought when you started your sub stack that you're going to hit the, you know, non speaking autism mom world, but I hope that you find great satisfaction in doing so because that doesn't happen that often in our world where we feel seen and heard by atypical moms. So thank you. Thank you for your and everyone. I'll be able to link where you can find Jenna and her work on Substack and her website and all the pieces that she has authored. And until next time on the Inch Lens podcast, thank you, Sarah.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: This was a real, real joy and honor.
[00:22:51] Speaker A: Awesome. Thanks, Jenna.
[00:22:53] Speaker B: Okay, bye.
