Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Full circle moment here today on the Inchtones podcast, I have with me Heather O'Neal, literally the first person that I dropped off, my dear sweet Millie after receiving her diagnoses of autism and apraxia into the care of Heather O'Neill, who was Millie's first ABA therapist and is now a BCBA at Cortica, which is a learning center for autistic and neurodivergent children and, and well on her way to almost receiving her PhD.
So first of all, there hasn't been a lot of years, so congratulations to you for what you've condensed into the last seven years. But also it's a testament to, I know the world works in such wonderful ways and it is no surprise that you were one of the first, actually the first therapists in my life for Millie and Max. So thank you for being here and thank you for this full circle moment.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah, I remember. Yes.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: How can we not? I just, you know, I always, I was actually blowing bubbles into Millie's bathtub last night, you know, the long bubble thing and thinking like I remember, I remember you sitting with there and just over and over and over again, ba, ba bubble, you know, and talk to me about Cortica and the, in the school that you work in now and also share how you landed here. Because I know as someone who believes in the holistic care and education of autistic children, why you feel so passionately about this?
[00:01:27] Speaker B: You know, I began, I first off, my son was diagnosed with autism and so that's where I began my journey. He's now 13, so this is, you know, a 10 year journey for me.
And so I've really just dove into the field for the last 10 years. And I began out as, you know, in the clinic and I didn't feel that I could grow in all ways just being in the clinic. So I spent then the last six years in school districts really learning how to identify all ages of children and their needs.
And I wanted to go back into just working with the autistic population because it is so passionate, it is such a drive, helping families. But I also was very nervous about going back to a company because my experience was very much that we request the most amount of hours, we're going to go to peer review and sometimes some kids don't need 40 hours per week. It really does need to be individualized. And ABA has come a long way within the last 10 years. We talk about new ABA hybrid ABA. Why are we using this terminology? It's because we don't need to break kids like horses. You know, we don't need to get kids to comply. We can do it other ways. And so when I. I had never heard of Cortica's name before, especially in New Jersey, saturated with ABA companies, there was one on every corner.
And so researching this particular company, I learned that there was a medical team, so it was definitely different. And they talked about this whole child approach. So, you know, prior to accepting the position, I went out and I bought Dr. Go's book, Magnificent Minds, and I read some parts of it and it talked about. Because I wanted to find out what the Cortica model was. And it really went into part. Parts of the neurodevelopmental profile. And I thought from a parent standpoint, my son's 13. I am a BCBA. I've been in the field. I know everything, knows everything.
I learned some things, and I was able to go back to my neurologist and talk about things with my son and knew that this company was doing good things. So I accepted a position as the site manager for the ABA in Warren.
And since then, I've been blown away because the company was founded by two neurodevelopmental pediatricians who were like every pediatrician, diagnosing kids at alarming rates with autism. Having the families come back and what happens? No, I'm on a waiting list here. I can't get speech. I can't get ot. I can't get anything. And the doctors are, you know, their hands are tied. And so they opened up their first clinic in Irvine, and they are doing extremely well in California. But now is our time to bring this model out to the east coast and really establish the team that's present. We have a medical doctor, we have developmental therapies, including music therapy. We have aba, and we all work together. And so without just, you know, highlighting Cortica as a company, just knowing that there is. Is a way to have all these disciplines work together for your child.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: I mean, Heather, I mean, you see me right now like I'm tearing up because I go back into the micellular form of, like, when, you know, Mac was literally a fresh infant and Millie's going into a ABA clinic. And what you're sharing about this kind of care and the services provided in the education and the holistic approach and the medical staff and the. And. And the related services all there, all working together, all in conjunction to literally serve the family and the child, all as one. For being a health medical provider, it's taking my breath away because I. Because the peace that is given in being able to offer that to a family is priceless. I mean, it is so priceless. And I can't say enough how much of a breath Cortica can give to mothers and fathers. Because you are saying it's all here. It's all here. Because the updates are so frequent and you know, you know, pulling from all these different things and getting the right reports and getting the iep, it's just like, as you know, it is a full time job. And for parents that are working corporate America full time jobs, there's literally no time to even restore your mitochondria every day. Right?
[00:06:30] Speaker B: Right. I remember telling you, you are a CEO now.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: Yep. Welcome. You're. See I'm like, why is my nursing bra leaking though? Like, I can't be a CEO, right? Yeah, you're launched into this. I spoke about or I heard someone speak this, this week. They said if I'm the CEO or if you're the CEO or I'm the CEO and I'm expecting people to be typical or to having like a typical experience. Right. It's like going to the front of the, of an employee company building and go, all right, I'll meet you guys inside for the meeting, but do a backflip and then I'll meet you inside.
And you're like, wait, but I can't. Well, that's doesn't matter. Like just do the backflip and we'll go inside. And that's, that's what parents feel when they have to become the CEO of their child's neuro. Neurodivers. Divergent educational path. Right. You're like, but I don't, don't know how to do that.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: No, you don't know. And you need people to. You need, you need your army and you need your team. And it's like anything you. How do you find your tribe when you are a stranger to it?
[00:07:34] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: And you know, I work with families all the time. It's my job and I love it and I love the support I can bring. As also a parent, I notice that sense of relief too when I say to a parent, I have a child with autism, multiple disabilities. It's not just autism now, but I get it. Like, I fight the good fight.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: He's 13.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: I had a couple good years. We're in the fix now. And I have a tribe because I don't know everything and I'm a parent to him. I am not a site manager. I'm not a bcba, I'm not anything. And so I really, I feel passionate about being able to help other families walk through this. Really understand that the mark of a good ABA clinic is if you hear more laughing than crying. And I love spending the time with the kids. I. My office is often downstairs on the floor just watching the joy. And these kids are progressing, they're things so nicely because they have people that love them and want to see them grow and have their best interests and don't have to force them into compliance.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:08:50] Speaker B: Need to do that.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: Talk to me about what a. You know, listen, you met one kid on the spectrum, you have one kid on the spectrum, you put a three year old Mac into your clinic versus three year old Millie. And that was for a different day. But can you talk maybe and give a quick summary of what a typical day might look like for a child that is on the spectrum, that is new to a cortica center? Are they going right into group activities? Are they getting one on one attention? Are they running discrete trials? Are you doing therapies? What does that look like? Even just on a basic level of a day to day?
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Sure. For our newly diagnosed children that do our day program, we have two different day programs, you know, one for littler kids that we do progression and teaching them that you don't have to just dump and run everything. We all know that 2 year old that just dumps everything out and takes off. So really working on play skills such as that and also beginning a little bit of a structured routine. I'm laughing because I remember the first time we had our three little kiddos all together in our play progression group. One of the bis got up to do circle time and she's like, it's like wrangling, you know, like one's over here, one's over here now. But it was just like we, we laughed to ourselves and nobody, like the best part is they're all laughing, nobody's getting frustrated there, you know, because it's.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: Just like you meet them where they're at, you know, as, as you probably told me early on, all behavior is communication.
So that, that like dump and run, that means something that has a message behind it, you know?
[00:10:27] Speaker B: Right. I mean, and then we have our older kiddos that you know, hey, they've got the routine, they're ready for school in the next year. Everything, every part of their day has a purpose. But every part of their day can be with other kids. We have fine motor, we have circle time, they, they have art, everything's done through play, everything's done through natural environmental teaching. There are some kids that do need one on one and that's okay too. So we have space for that and we have programs for that. We have opportunities to socialize. So again, every, every client gets what they need when they need it. And you know, they'll get pulled for occupational therapy sometimes. There's co treats. I know of the music and speech co treat, which is amazing because we know that through music you can learn rhyming. And you know, one of our littles, like he just goes around and sings E I E I O and he didn't come in talking. That's right. It is fantastic because as you see the children grow in our program, you see their personalities come out. And I can tell you, you know, our bcbas fight over certain children because they're like, oh my God, he's so wonderful. And it could be the challenging story student ever. But we see them and like I said, it really is about the laughter. It's about bringing the joy. It's also about starting with the ask and not, or starting with the give and not the ask.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: I'd like to also think about traditional schools versus private educational structures and clinics and how, you know, I remember. I know I'm in my early 40s and so when I think about fellow classmates that were maybe on the spectrum back then that didn't have a diagnosis or such, they were the, you know, more disruptive ones in class or off to the side, not, not engaging. But when we got out of the classroom and did more, you know, nature walks or play based or environmental things, they tended to rise to be the ones that were more engaged in a less traditional classroom. And I think that the beauty of what you're offering combines all of that. Cause you're open to the idea that it's beyond traditional learning. It's also beyond traditional aba. It is this combined method and hybrid journey where you think like, oh my gosh, this part lights up for this kid. Let's co treat in that capacity and see what happens. Because we have to try. And I think there's a major fear in a lot of special needs parents in these first steps of it. Because you're like, well, what if it doesn't work?
But trying is something. Trying is not. Trying is keep moving, keep trying to push the needle a little bit further.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: Right, I, I agree with that. I think that, you know, and I don't know if you were the same way, but I remember that when my sister said, I think you should get Thomas, you know, looked at. I was like, what do you mean? Like, every. All the kids with autism that I've ever heard about are, you know, stimming in a corner. They don't laugh. They don't make eye contact. My son is laughing. He's running around the room with his sister.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: What crazy man.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: Like, yeah, And I. I thought I. I knew it. I thought, you know, and so it is surprising to me that even at this day and age that. That sometimes I think that, oh, well, everybody, like, everybody knows now. I mean, the times that I have parents come in that say, I have no nothing. What is aba? And it's great because I'm like, all right, let's. Let me tell you, because what's out there, all the information.
There's a lot of information that's not good information.
And how do you get in front of that? Because, yeah, there's really awful places out there. I know of really awful places. And, you know, yeah, we're. We're one company doing this approach. And I'm sure there's other companies that offer similar. There are, you know, not all. Every ABA company is, you know, not a good fit. But at the same time, it's like, how do you understand those hallmarks? What are they doing? How are they teaching? How are they training?
You know, So I feel that the education not only comes on the parents part, but also the people that are working with your child's part.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: I guess it's just very complex. It is. It is intense, right? It's very intense because you have this team. And at the same time, it's so wonderful that you have this team, right? It can be both the same time. It can be a lot, and it can be really necessary and beautiful to have a lot of different eyes, a lot of different perspectives, and a lot of different people contributing to the environment and the observing of your child's development, which I think two things can be true at once. It can be overwhelming, and it also can be really positive. That's a journey that a lot of special needs parents, and I put myself in that bucket a hundred percent, is that it is a lot. And as soon as you can get over yourself and go, this is just gonna be a lot, but the more I lean into it, you find that homeostasis of this being the way in which your child learns and the environment they learn and what that team looks like, and you're like, all right, well, this is my new normal. I never believed in a million years.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: I'd be saying that that's funny, right? I remember too, thinking to myself, looking at parents on vacation.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: Yeah, right?
[00:16:14] Speaker B: Have you ever been to the beach? And you know, here you are, you're like, oh, my God. Okay, take a deep breath. Meanwhile, your kids are a. Maybe not. I mean, you're great with your kids. You take them everywhere. But I remember, like, okay, looking at a family with their two young kids running around. I'm like, I will never have that.
Like, I am just concentrating on him not eating the sand, freaking out that he has sand around him like, he hates, and he's eating the sand. And I'm looking at all these families and they're playing in the water, and I'm like, I will never have that vacation. But your opportunity to feel sorry lasts for about two seconds because you are the parent to that child. And so you have those fleeting moments. We're human. And it's okay to say, you know what, this really sucks right now. Like, I. I look at my son. He's not athletic. He is very quirky. He plays with stuffed animals. But that's his. That's him and that's his autonomy. And I, I don't change that for a million years. Do. Sometimes I'm like, hey, I wish that, you know, he played a sport. And. Yeah. But again, those moments are fleeting and they're okay. And it's okay for a parent.
[00:17:31] Speaker A: I remind myself pretty much daily, I'm not unique. Like, I'm literally not unique. I know a hundred percent that there is another Sarah out there that has a typical child and a boy and a girl with. With autism. That's just the truth. I'm not unique. And the more. And I think about that, the more I think to your point about like a beach vacation or something, you know? Yes. I choose hotels that have fully fenced in pools that. That's just a. That's just a prerequisite. I literally asked a friend about a hotel in Orlando. I'm like, oh, I remember you guys staying there. This is what the splash look like. The photos on Yelp don't suggest X. Do you remember it being fully fenced in? And I, I used to think, gosh, Sarah, you're so. You're so hyper controlling about these environments. No, I've just learned to know what we need. That's what we need.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: I don't have to tell you. It's like pool chairs that have slats in them do not work. Okay. I need full cloth ones that have. Because they're. They're going to climb and the legs are going to fall through. And it's these little tweaks of going. There's enough opportunity, there's enough experiences and there's enough places to be okay with choosing the ones in the environments that are worth, worth it for yours, your children. And plus the sand thing, I mean the number of rocks that my children have pooped after a sand play is.
[00:18:45] Speaker B: I know you do learn to just be that. Okay, so what kind of person let them look? And you know, I think also I, I have told parents so many times because they're like, oh my God. People look at me and I was like, you know what you do? I remember my son being on a target floor, like hysterically crying. His face was up against the floor and I'm thinking to myself, I don't even know how many like things he's like digesting.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: And people are looking at me and I'm like, wow, his mom really should take care of him.
[00:19:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: And then they laugh and then your guard comes down because having a child with special needs, having a child, I have a 14 year old having a child.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:19:30] Speaker B: You have to have humor and you have to find humor and it's not going to be easy. And you're going to have a lot of what ifs and you're going to, as a new parent, say, my child doesn't talk. How do I know they're not going to do something with them?
How will I know? Well, you know what I know how you're going to know. They're going to run towards that ABA therapist when they see him in the door. Every one of my littles runs. In fact, the moms always laugh and they're like, well, I guess we're second the best. That's how you're going to know. That's how you're going to know when.
[00:20:02] Speaker A: You'Re seen and heard.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: Non vocal child.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: It feels understood and is okay because I know that in this environment I'm being seen and heard. And even a typical child probably can't even vocalize that right. But they know that a school environment is there to help them learn and expand their minds. And I do, I really do believe and I know that you think so too. I mean there is a, there is a sense about these children that know love and joy and protection when their people show them who they are. And I just think that they do. They know who their people are.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: They know who their people are. I, you know, I'm blessed, so blessed to work with some of the most amazing people their Hearts are, are so, so big. I regularly have conversations with some of the staff and I'm like, have you ever thought of doing this like on another level? Because you're just so innate.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Like, you're like, who you are as a human is exactly where they should be right now.
[00:21:03] Speaker B: I mean there are, there are kids that come in and they spit and they're self injurious and the staff just know how to bring joy to their life. And that's an amazing, that's a superpower. And you know, they don't. You know, I just love to celebrate anyone because I'm looking at it from a parent's perspective, not from their supervisor's perspective. In that moment, I'm looking at a parent's perspective, like thinking, thank you. Thank you so much for having that kindness and that patience because that's what you really need.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: Mm. More than ever before we go, what would be one thing if a parent right now, if there, if I had the opportunity to have a call in line here and the parent says, hi, my child is exhibiting the symptoms of, of that are, that are developmentally delayed and I got a diagnosis of autism and I'm really scared. What do I do right now to even get on a list to be considered for cortico? Who do I even call? What do I do? What's the next step? Because I know I'm on so many different mom boards right online and that's just like a question that comes up so much because their child is, they know that their child even exhibits autism, unlike what they've even researched. So like people just go, well, what's the first step? How do I even get to the point where I'm having a parent discussion with you?
[00:22:27] Speaker B: Make the call.
[00:22:28] Speaker A: Make the call to the main, to the main office of.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Yeah, they, everyone, whether you go and see our doctor on site or whether you come in with an aba, you know, a company like Cortica, we're, we're nationwide. So we do a team that handles assessments. An initial assessment. They schedule you as fast as they, as they and our BCBAs will then meet. And so our initial assessments are done virtually allows us to then submit for insurance authorization. And then the BCPA will tailor the individualistic treatment plan. And our staff, they undergo a two week orientation and they learn about neurodevelopmental profiles. You know, she goes over the brain. So we're not just saying, hey, show up the first day, you know, bring your running shoes.
We make sure that our staff are ready to go and they understand the needs of the children and we're very intense, of course with who we put with who and you know, we want to make sure that the utmost care is taken for those first steps.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: Well, I'm so thankful for to be along on, on your journey and being a part of your story with my kids and I'm so thankful for the families and kids that come into your world and through Cordica because if this is the, if this is the next wave and parents like I was seven, eight years ago were able to call and get this holistic approach, the amount of being able to take a deep breath would be two or three more times of what it is. So you are doing, you are doing the good work and I'm so thankful for you, for your heart and for the team that you bring on board.
Just thank you for being you. I really appreciate you, Heather.
[00:24:19] Speaker B: Yeah, you too.
[00:24:21] Speaker A: All right, until next time on the Inch Jones podcast.
