Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: When I thought of starting the Inch Zones podcast, there was only one person that rose that had to be, you know, victim zero.
And that is who I'm so lucky to call my friend, Dr. Carrie Magro, known as the autistic professional speaker, bestselling author, self advocate, and truly one of the coolest humans I know. And I'm not blowing smoke. You know that to be true. I really think you're one of the coolest people I know.
So without further ado, Carrie Magro to the Inchtones podcast. How are you today?
[00:00:35] Speaker B: Glad to be here. Sarah, you're so sweet. So proud to be able to call you a friend and to have gotten the opportunity to play Santa for your kids. I mean seriously, all that other fun stuff in between. But you're awesome and you're speaking now and you're doing some awesome stuff yourself. So proud to know you as well, my friend.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: Wow. Well, what? So we were just talking before we pressed record that you know, I love, love and self acceptance is a huge part of anyone, but specifically in the neurodiversity field. So Carrie Magro, what are you most proud of for being Carrie Magro?
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Oh my God. I think I'm most proud of just the ability to strive. I literally as a kid I was so scared of the world around me and especially when I was non speaking and trying to find my voice for the first time, I always felt like I had a 9 to 5 job even as like a 4 year old child because I was always felt like, you know, I saw kids that with so many different friends and at birthday parties I wasn't getting invited to and I was just like, oh my God. It's like I want that in my life and I really have to strive. I really had to just like, but like having that like mentality as a kid really I think made my adult years so much easier and I think that's, that's something that I've kind of just been really proud of myself over the years and just having that self motivation and striving to just, you know, become the best version of myself that I possibly could. And you know, now, now looking back at, at that kid who was scared of the world and now having the blessings I have in my life, it's just an truly amazing ride.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: What point did you think, okay, not only do I feel confident in who I've become and who I'm constantly becoming, but that I can speak about this on a public level and you know, I. One of the things I talk about so honestly and I also know it's innate because of how I was raised, but leaning in with such vulnerability and lack of shame, because those two things, I think you and I both know, can cloud the experience around neurodiversity. I'm, you know, adhd, and I believe that, you know, there's a film that has to be pulled back. I believe that that film is ridding yourself with the shame and leading in with vulnerability. What. What. What do you feel got you to that point where you were like, you know what? Not only am I doing this and proud of myself, but I can speak to this.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I think it all, like, came to me when I really first understood that whole concept of neurodiversity for the first time, because growing up, I had no idea what neurodiversity meant. I just knew disability, and I knew that people with disabilities had longing challenges that were going to hinder them for the rest of their lives. And it wasn't until I got to college, where I was like, oh, my God, there's this whole group of people out there, like the temple grants of the world, and not being able to call her, even call her a friend, and, like, people X her, like, every now and then and just be like, oh, my God, I. I have questions. It's like, I'm still starstruck, but, like, the.
[00:03:57] Speaker A: The whole time, you know, I feel in your presence, because when I. When came out autism, mom, someone's like, oh, my God, you got to start following Carrie Mack.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I mean, like, when I first realized about neurodiversity, that was something that made me realize, like, oh, my God, not only were there people out there, like, doing this for a career and speaking and sharing their story and sharing their voice to just empower and help other people. I grew up as a theater kid. I wanted. I tell, embarrassingly to most of the crowds I speak to that I wanted to become the sixth member of the Backstreet Boys. And I fell in. Fell in love with theater.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: It was the routines. It was the dance routines. We all loved it.
[00:04:36] Speaker B: Dance routines, autistic person. I love routines. So there you go.
But, yeah, so long story short, I fell in love with just being on stage and that concept. And then I was like, oh, my God, this. This could be a career. And then now, like, with the numbers of autism when I was in college, I think we're, like, one in every, like, 150 were diagnosed with autism, and then now it's one in 34. I believe in the U.S.
it's become a topic that's in every household. Whether you have a personal connection or just know of someone in the community who has autism. It's been a labor of love. Been doing it for over 13 years now and get an opportunity to speak in K through 12 and to companies and to government organizations and talk about neurodiversity, not only autism, but a wide range of disabilities has been truly just an incredible ride. And I hope I can do it for many decades to come.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: As someone who's doing it parallel to you in a different capacity, I'd love to hear what have been some of the coolest questions that you think have been asked to you. Just as in being Carrie. Just as Carrie. Being Carrie.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, honestly, what I could say is Q, Q and A is actually my favorite part of every presentation I give because often, like sometimes they're not even questions, they're just like comments like, I have a family member who's impacted by this, this and that sort of self advocate who' I had similar challenges to you. And hearing those like testimonies, like, makes me realize like, I'm not alone in this community and I, I've known that for years now. But to just hear like those personal stories and testimonies from companies and in our schools has been truly an amazing ride. I think one of my most fondest questions was from a fifth grader. I was speaking on bullying prevention for National Bullying Prevention Month and a kid came up to me and said, you know, Kerry, you shared a few self advocate videos in your presentation. And I never realized that people could feel the way that those kids felt that were bullied. And I used to bully people like that. And I want you to know that I'm never going to bully anyone again because I know the challenges that people now face. Now after seeing these videos, the kid, that's profound. Yeah. Like for a fifth grader to say.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: That grader, that's like they're, you know, they're like 10 or 11.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Yeah, seriously, it's like he should be on stage. And I was just like blown away and then, you know, just asking questions after the presentation and just being like, oh my God, it's like, how can I become an ally? I, I think that's, you know, if I, I often say it's like if I never got another speaking engagement to have that like one question and answer period. What it's really just like it brings it full circle. You know what I mean?
[00:07:29] Speaker A: Yeah. I think my brand of motherhood in general has always been like, like Living outside, interacting with the world. I grew up in a family that traveled a lot, so I innately in having children, wanted to travel and do experiences and get out there. And that's why I got, you know, to meet you in person and then form a friendship. How do you guide parents with young autistic children to really get out there and experience the world? What, what can you instill in parents?
[00:07:58] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. I was looking at a mom blog on Instagram the other day and it was talking about the idea of routines. And it's like never take a kid out of their routine who has autism, but when you take them out of that routine, you not only help them build self awareness of like what is out there in the world that they may be potentially capable of, it also introduces the world to your child and them become more inclusive. And I just remind them it's like we can't be afraid to have our kids just be in the world around them because that's where we are going to make change. We're seeing celebrities and political figures who are just coming out about having a child who was diagnosed and it was because they weren't scared of having their child out there in the world and exploring the world around them and not being afraid, but being able to engage and help them grow as people too.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: What resonates with me always is, well, it's not going to be easy. The ex. You know, there's expectations that we for some reason put on ourselves as parents of, you know, neurodiverse kids and just as a, as a human in general, we have these like expectations that like something has to go a certain way. And I think when you just allow for the range of an experience to land where it is, it still can be really fulfilling. I mean, there are just things that I know are going to be 30 times harder and I don't give a lot of weight to that because I still think it's worth doing. That's the kind of power about when I talk about inch zones is who cares if you try a new experience and it's only 15 minutes, you still did it.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:09:42] Speaker A: How would you word putting that power back in parents?
[00:09:45] Speaker B: I go back to temple a lot and one of her theories is around. She calls it the rubber band theory where it's like, hey, anytime I hear a rubber band, I, I like, I was obsessed with like 90s and 2000s hip hop song like they give T.I. and the rubber band song, like that's.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: A whole new podcast, Carrie podcast.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: And that's the type of Music we're hearing in the oldies and like Walmart and sorry about that, another day. But what I can say, she has this theory where it's like you have to stretch her kids to see what they're capable of, like rubber band. But you also have to meet them where they are in their development, to know how, where, when to just stretch a little bit and not stretch too far to lead to breakdowns, meltdowns, et cetera and so forth, where they might be overstimulated. So it's all about just meeting your kid where they are. And my parents had this role when I was growing up. It was the three strike world. I had to try something at least three times before, especially with sensory challenges. You know, once I did something once, I often was like, I had that no phase for much and it was really, really important that my parents didn't just like give in. And they, you know what, you're gonna have to try this three times and let's see if it actually works for you. And I mean that, that's how I found some of my strongest key interests, like basketball. Being able to like tell you all 30 NBA teams and every single player on one of those teams. That was the theme growing up. And it's, it's something I tell parents all the time.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: I mean, it sounds so simple. It sounds so simple. It's not easy as a, as a parent who just craves like craving to understand your child is such a beautiful subject to learn, giving them the power. Because I think every child, whether they're typical or neurodiverse, like they enjoy choices and autistic children tend to be more rigid in their choices. It doesn't mean that they don't like given the opportunity to try the new thing. It just needs to be presented more frequently in a different way. And that, that expands my own environment. Hey, I gave you three shots as a friend. I mean, right?
[00:12:03] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. See, and I kept you, you kept me around.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: It was the Lakers, it was the Lakers fan fandom that really almost pushed me over the edge. But it's okay.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: I know it's okay. The struggle is real. The struggle is real.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: The struggle is real. What would be one of your favorite things about the movement now in neurodiversity?
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Like, well, I think the two biggest things are that we are pivoting our conversations away from cures, really just focusing more on progress. We, we had autism organizations when I just started becoming an autism advocate like 17, 18 years ago, where it was very research based and we were trying to find like, you know, all these different things around how we can cure somebody of their autism. And now what I love to see, just as an advisory member for so many different national autism organizations, is that we've taken away the focus on research and focusing more on progress and go about having larger conversations about providing meaningful resources across the span for those who are on the autism spectrum. So I think that's one of the biggest things. But the second thing is that we're talking about adults, because neurodiverse children will become adults and see this huge age cliff once these kids age out of high school and there aren't enough services and supports out there for them. And it's so jarring when I hear from older parents who are just thinking about what will happen to my child when I'm gone. There's so many unanswered questions around guardianship, housing, unemployment. I mean, love getting the opportunity to give professional development for companies and talk about neurodiversity in the workplace because of the fact that the majority of neurodiverse individuals are unemployed or underemployed compared to their non disabled peers. And we need to have larger conversations of what that looks like.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Much larger.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Those two areas are definitely things I'm, I'm super proud that we're having larger conversations about. We still have a long way to go, but those are definitely areas that I'm, I'm hoping we can have more conversations with moving forward.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: I agree. You know, one of the byproducts of speaking about my own journey that I was not anticipating at all was going into companies and there being obviously like this Gen Z workforce, right? They're, they're, they're fresh out of college. You know, they're, they're prefrontal cortex, like literally just closed up. Okay. They're baby adults. And I mean, I think about this from a scientific thing of like, you know, what really does that generation do in terms of creating a better work environment for neurodiversity? And honestly, I got put in my place on this. Their level of emotional intelligence and curiosity about neurodiversity is one of the most shocking things that I, as a geriatric millennial, felt is the coolest thing about this. No, I, I mean, I am, I'm a, I'm a geriatric millennial. I'm 41 years old. I'm an 83 baby. Do you think that, that the, the generations that are having more peers that are diagnosed will only aid in that progress?
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I definitely think so. Because when I was just starting off my career. I mean we like employee resource groups were even something that I never heard about. I heard of HR departments, maybe a D I initiative, but never actual groups and subgroups. I mean it's like I was at S and P global last year for autism acceptance month and they only had an ERG group for called abilities group, but a subgroup for parents of children impacted by disabilities. And I was just thinking to myself like, oh my God, how far have we come where now we could have these conversations. And from your point about just like looking at Gen Z and like the future of our workplaces, we're just going to see this as just part of the normal conversation because those with disabilities make up the largest minority in the United States, but they're often one of the most underserved populations in our, in our companies because of the fact that, I mean some people with disabilities, don't get me wrong, they have high support needs. Some individuals do. But there are individuals where I. And I sound like a broken record. So many times I tell companies that those with disabilities are more likely to stay at a job longer. They're more likely to take less time off from work. And when we talk about the bottom line, especially even like four years out of COVID 19 and so many people money pinching. Even in some of the Fortune 500 companies, majority of reasonable accommodations don't cost anything at all. And when do it's just typically an onboarding fee of $500. So it's not, it's not about what a company can do for a neurodiverse person, but it's what neurodiverse person can do for that company.
[00:17:13] Speaker A: The I, you know, that's all I need to know again is like it is changing and it is becoming more open and accepting.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: Yeah, totally 1%. And the representation is great too. We're seeing it more in our media and it's. It's a beautiful thing to say. So I'm excited to see what they do next. Your family are just the most ador like Millie just like steals my heart every single time I see a photo pop up on Facebook, just, oh my God, she is.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Listen, the best part about that is that as you know, like she doesn't care who likes her, who doesn't like her. Millie is just happy being Millie. I believe that because they only know how to be who they are, that it is the greatest gift as a parent to be front row watching it. I recorded a podcast with my best friend who I said, you know, got a Front row at this. And how has that changed your own parenting? And her experience, that opened up her idea of letting her kids be the best version of themselves. And that's because of Millie, who she is, has allowed and freed other people to do the same for themselves. That's the coolest part about it. Yeah, it's just Millie's world. It's just Carrie's world. We're all just living at it, taking notes from the best. Because I really hope that the intro's podcast becomes about doing the next right thing, being the best version of yourself, and not being afraid to take the small step.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing is, I often say it's. It takes a village. So guys who are joining us today, don't feel afraid to gain contact with us anytime. And I'm sure, Sarah, you feel the same way. You can check out my website, carymagra.com I speak regularly with companies and K through 12 programs. So definitely reach out to me on my contact form if you're curious. We do in person and virtual presentations. We've done things around the globe to provide resources and education to our communities.
[00:19:12] Speaker A: Well, you know, holidays, and specifically Christmas and Santa, you have changed. You know, in the. In our area in New Jersey, the ability for my kids to experience this really special holiday and time of year, I. My hope is that people just copy and paste and look to you to do this all around the country. But what you. The space that you hold and the environment that you and your team get to create through that is just awesome. It's now a tradition for us.
Having traditions, that's the coolest thing about this. They can still be traditions for your children that experience taking the world differently, and it doesn't take away from those moments. So you and that white beard, man, it looks good on you. You shed some pounds. You sweat it all out. And that cost.
[00:19:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I literally, as I'm, like, looking at myself in the screen, I'm, like, seeing my, like, first white hair, too. So it's like, it's only a matter of time. I just grab the beer.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: The good news is, Carrie, is that I will always be older than you. I will always be older than you.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: Stop it. No, you're.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. All right. Well, thank you to My dear friend, Dr. Carrie Magro, for this wonderful conversation. You're the best. We appreciate you so much.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: You are, too. Thanks for the opportunity.
